A faster approach to a bowline knot

[Mackie_Macheath]

One of the complains I hear about the bowline is that it's not fast enough te lay for those speed freaks.
But one of the nice things of the bowline is that's possible to load it in all directions and although some versions feel more logical there are benifits with the alternatives.
Like speed.

First lay your wraps and fold the standing back so you create a bight.
   
Lay the working over then under the wraps including the bight.
   
Bring the working through the bight.
   
Pull first the working than the standing snugggg. Done! Guests cannot see images in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see images.
   

[Ligatio]

great!
I just tried it (on my own leg, as you did ;-)) and it's fast, secure, and nothing gets tighter even under heavy tention!
* Ligatio adopts this knot!

[harper]

I also like it and see it as a valuable addition to the repertoire for such purposes as the wrist wraps in a TK.

BUT I also see a way in which it might collapse catastrophically under heavy load and perhaps if not tied too well. I'll get a couple of photos to explain as soon as I can. For that reason I can't regard it as suitable for a primary suspension line.

[Mackie_Macheath]

I agree. It's primairy use is for the wrist-wraps.

It won't collapse as long as you pull the working end snug before you pull the standing end. This is vital.

[harper]

Here are the promised photos.

1. This is the knot, tied quite loosely for the "naming of parts":

S - standing part
O - the "over" bit of the "over all, under all" stage of the boola-boola
W - the working end
B - the bight formed by folding the standing part back on itself as in the first part of Mackie_Macheath's instructions

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2. The knot drawn up a bit better. Note that any tension on the standing part (the arrow) will pull the trapped working end towards and into the arch of O:

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3. Same thing a stage further on:

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4. Different angle, showing how the working end is being pulled under part O:

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5. It's now almost all the way through...

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6. Working end now completely disappeared:

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7. That bight of standing part has now pulled completely free and the knot has failed. It's no longer locking, and not secure at all:

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[Mackie_Macheath]

Very true. But that's reason that with my explination I state:

Quote: Pull first the working than the standing snug.

When you follow this it will be very hard to collaps the knot as you show it.
You can compare this with the boola when you do not collapse the first state properly.

Maybe we should talk this over when we meet in London.

[harper]

Yes, I agree that it will be very hard, and I don't think it's a problem for uses like wrist wraps or even secondary suspension lines for arms and legs. But in my opinion, even the possibility of that kind of collapse rules it out for critical uses like a primary suspension line. And there is a danger that if a variation like this becomes widely known, some people won't appreciate that just as for any other knot, it's good for some purposes but not for others.

On the other hand, as a "short" finish to the boola-boola on the wrists, it's the best solution I've come across and quicker to tie than mine. Full marks for that.

Look forward to meeting at the Festival!

[Ligatio]

also, often the standing part will go around something (a ring eg) and will come back trough loop 'W' (the working end) before any tension is applied... no way that will get pulled trough...

[harper]

True, but if we're talking about a primary suspension line that raises the whole "burn the bight" issue that we've discussed at length elsewhere...

[Mackie_Macheath]

I fully agree that it's not the right knot for a primairy suspencion. For that one you should use the normal bowline or one of the many other knots.

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And I should have changed my mood...