A question about chest harnesses

[PusyDave]

Takate kotes and some other suspension-worthy chest harnesses go around the arms and trunk. The chest harnesses that I always use for suspension don't go around the arms. I know that there are things to do to mitigate the dangers, but I just see a harness that goes around the arms as being more dangerous than one that doesn't.
Sure, you can lock off the wraps to keep them from slipping up, and you can do plenty of studying to know your anatomy well so that you put your wraps in a place where you're unlikely to impinge on any nerves in the arm, but still... Those aren't dangers that exist (or at least not to the same extent) with a harness that doesn't go around the arms.
I can only see three reasons for doing a chest harness around the arms- tradition, aesthetic, and desiring that extra restriction of restraining the arms instead of just the wrists.
So, to the people that tie box tie-type chest harnesses, I ask you. Why do you do it? What's your reasoning? I'm not criticizing at all, I'm just curious. I understand that suspension bondage is dangerous, and maybe it's arbitrary for me to participate in a dangerous activity and still say "I won't do that.
I find that I can create safe, attractive ties without going around the arms. For those that feel differently, I'd just like to understand the thought process.

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Actually, for those of you that do chest harnesses without going around the arms, I'd like to hear your reasons, also. Like I said, I'm curious.

[Guilty]

(20-02-2010 07:50 PM)PusyDave Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.I can only see three reasons for doing a chest harness around the arms- tradition, aesthetic, and desiring that extra restriction of restraining the arms instead of just the wrists.

That + starting the tie with restraining the wrists.

For a show, ither harnesses simply don't work as well. But for longer suspension I agree it is less safe.

[harper]

If you put the arms on the inside of the wraps you have an increased risk of nerve injury, and possibly of other issues related to pressure on the arms e.g. restricted circulation and just general pain and discomfort (although those aren't often much of a problem if the tie is done right, but some suspendees may be more vulnerable than others).

If you put the chest harness around the torso only, with the arms outside, the pressure of the load-bearing ropes on the sides of the chest can significantly restrict rib-cage expansion and chest breathing. How much that is a problem depends on the individual suspendee. Some people will happily get along on diaphragm breathing, others will feel too restricted and may start to panic if they have difficulty with chest breathing. If you put the arms on the inside, they take the pressure off the sides of the thorax and that makes chest breathing easier.

I use both methods, and if I'm suspending someone face-down for the first time I'll always talk through these issues beforehand so that we can make an informed decision about which way to go. Another aspect is that some people just don't like being suspended with arms firmly tied behind their backs because they feel they don't have control of their balance that way. I suspended someone like that a couple of days ago (see Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.). With people like that it's better to find a different way of dealing with their arms that allows them to feel a little more in control. Other people, of course, enjoy the lack of control... Everyone is different, which is one of the best things about it!

[PusyDave]

(20-02-2010 09:41 PM)harper Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.If you put the arms on the inside, they take the pressure off the sides of the thorax and that makes chest breathing easier.

Well, that's one benefit that I wasn't aware of. I'll have to give it a try for my next face down suspension. I rarely do them because of the breathing problems that you alluded to, but if putting the arms inside can help to alleviate that, then I'm absolutely willing to give this style of harness a shot.

[___S___]

As I have never done one, how easy/hard is it to do a side suspension off a chest harness that does not encapsulate the arms?

[Guilty]

We've tried that a couple times. It works, but it's prety tough on the breathing (but weight might be a factor theretoo). You can make it easier though, but supporting the hips as well at a higher point than the chest, taking much of the pressure of the chest (do a classic sideway chest - upper leg - ankle, than tie a hip rope and pull up).

[esinem]

(20-02-2010 10:21 PM)PusyDave Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.

(20-02-2010 09:41 PM)harper Wrote: Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links.If you put the arms on the inside, they take the pressure off the sides of the thorax and that makes chest breathing easier.

Well, that's one benefit that I wasn't aware of. I'll have to give it a try for my next face down suspension. I rarely do them because of the breathing problems that you alluded to, but if putting the arms inside can help to alleviate that, then I'm absolutely willing to give this style of harness a shot.

Take a look at my Guests cannot see links in the messages. Please register to forum by clicking here to see links. before you do so you have some idea where probs might arise.

[Kaa68]

I starting doing the Gote for aesthetics, tradition, and the aforementioned chest compression. After having tried both (Gote vs chest harness) with my partner, she much prefers the traditional Gote. I also like the fact that the Gote immediately incorporates the hands and arms so there is no fussing with having to tie them to get them out of the way as well. I like doing face down suspensions and these are what I do the most of.

Even when doing a suspension with someone new I use a Gote. It's what I know well. I also start out with partial suspension on new people to try and ascertain how the Gote works on their body.

[harper]

Just a little clarification, if I may. "Gote" or "Gote Shibari" is another name for what is usually called the Takate-Kote, TK, or "box tie". In other words, forearms anti-parallel behind the back, and two sets of wraps around chest and upper arms.

Somewhere we've got a thread about the exact shades of meaning, but I haven't got time to find it just now. Slaving away over a hot PaintShop Pro, Sony Vegas, and NetObjects Fusion 11 - and an update to get out tomorow...

Work work work. It's all work. Whoever was it who said bondage is supposed to be fun??

[esinem]

I think the only time I have used a chest harness recently is for the aerial ballet stuff where the model needed her hands free. Off to TG Athens next month to do that show, all paid. Hurrah!